tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post2220957564165569144..comments2024-03-19T20:31:23.141-05:00Comments on The Chuck Cowdery Blog: "I Must Govern the Clock, Not be Governed by It"Chuck Cowderyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-77846838012937731492013-06-18T07:53:54.822-05:002013-06-18T07:53:54.822-05:00Chuck, You are right on point Cleveland Whiskey is...Chuck, You are right on point Cleveland Whiskey is an over worked juvenile whiskey. I bought on of the first bottles and rushed home to taste it. See my review here. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=507081332681919&set=a.209533329103389.55350.209500935773295&type=1&theater)<br /><br />With the name of my beloved city on the bottle and as a whiskey drinker I am more than disappointed. You could not have said it better. "The Emperor Has No Clothes". What I hope does not happen is that when one of the few but proud distillers in the Cleveland/N.E. Ohio area do release a proper whiskey they are not lumped in with Huckster. Great article Chuck and if you ever find yourself in Cleveland and need of a drink don't fear I have more than enough for the two of us in my collection. <br /><br />Cheers!!Edwin Vargashttp://www.clevelandbourbonclub.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-49977600720592323692013-06-07T15:31:01.771-05:002013-06-07T15:31:01.771-05:00EzWeave, I agree that Bob's argument commits a...EzWeave, I agree that Bob's argument commits a logical fallacy, but reductio itself is not a logical fallacy. It is a perfectly valid form of argument, as the Wikipedia article that you link attests. Bob's problem is that he commits something akin to a hasty generalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization). He seems to suggest that just because many new technologies which people complain about turn out to actually be important innovations, this is true of all such new technologies. As many other commenters have pointed out he is wrong precisely because the technology, at a minimum, has to actually work as promised first! Sorry to hijack the discussion briefly, but logic is important!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-46798232365303483872013-06-06T21:57:42.121-05:002013-06-06T21:57:42.121-05:00Wow, what a bunch of interesting comments. The pr...Wow, what a bunch of interesting comments. The problem isn't the technology, the problem is the final product. It tastes like wood and ethanol, with a hint of something that I can't describe, but it shouldn't be in whiskey. If you like the woody character and don't mind the solventy alcohol, I could see some people liking it, but it isn't what most of us look for in good whiskey. It is lacking the typical vanilla, almond, etc. flavors that are pulled from traditional barrel aging and it hasn't had time to mellow and lose the hot, harsh solventy alcohol. I think the process could work "to some degree", but they need to do some things differently.Ron Smith - National BJCP Judge, Certified Cicerone, Beer and Whiskey Educatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-8642962316609724862013-06-06T17:57:44.924-05:002013-06-06T17:57:44.924-05:00"And the internet will never work and only th..."And the internet will never work and only the rich have cell phones. Nothing will ever replace my horse.<br /><br />Bob"<br /><br />In logic, we call this <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum" rel="nofollow">reducto ad absurdum</a> and arguments of that nature are just a waste of pixels. There are a litany of "technological advances" that didn't take off: Cuecat, Divix (not the codecs, the DVD alternative system), Web TV, Internet Appliances, Metric Time, beta-voltaics, etc.<br /><br />The real point is that this whiskey, from the critical reviews I've read, just <a href="http://dramgoodtime.com/2013/04/22/cleveland-whiskey-black-bourbon-review-batch-001/" rel="nofollow">isn't any good</a>. I suspect that the <i>reducto ad absurdum</i> crowd might also walk around wearing Blu Tooth headsets and cargo shorts, but I'm just being petty. Just because something "seems tech" makes it neither good nor, perhaps, cool. This whole affair is as gauche as open toed shoes.ezweavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11562584824255906432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-2339275109033727402013-06-06T15:15:03.336-05:002013-06-06T15:15:03.336-05:00That ain't workin' thats the way you do it...<br />That ain't workin' thats the way you do it<br />You play the guitar on the mtv<br />Money for nothin' and whiskey for freeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-66905610587678569652013-06-06T13:59:00.436-05:002013-06-06T13:59:00.436-05:00@ Anonymous...
"... the big distilleries woul...@ Anonymous...<br />"... the big distilleries would still prefer to sit on the stuff for a decade instead of monetizing today, as they are more about the tradition than making money."<br /><br />Yes, that's true -- kinda sorta.<br /><br />But you need to understand (actually OTHER READERS need to understand; YOU already seem to) that the established distillers already HAVE as much 4-10 year old whiskey as they were expecting to sell this year. And next year. Etcetera. Distilled whiskey differs from most other products in that its asset value continues to increase the longer it's stored (up to a point, at least). That barrel of whiskey will be worth more next year than it is this year. And boy, don't the accountants and stockholders love THAT? You can "make money" just be sitting on it!<br /><br />And that also explains why, as you indicated, the old-line whiskey-producers associate the release of younger whiskey as a sign of weakness and semi-desparation. It's tradition. To them, the words "aged under 4 years" or "36 months old!" would not be found on a label of a product they would be proud of.<br /><br />I totally believe that the "age" of a whiskey (i.e., the age of the youngest whiskey in the bottle, not necessarily the age of the other 75%) is not the same as its "maturity", which has no standard measure other than personal taste. New distillers don't have the luxury of a huge supply of old whiskey to draw from, and that's exactly the situation that existed right after Repeal. The Shenley's, Seagram's, Stitzel-Wellers, Beams, National Distillers, and so forth at the time were in pretty much the same boat then. It took years, and another war-related drought, for them to reach the level of quality and public acceptance that many new distillers today strive for. Some will make it; most will not. It's not a matter of quality -- it's a matter of money and brand loyalty.<br /><br />Okay, I ALSO totally believe that anyone too lazy (or deceitful) to create an identifiable name is really not worth answering here, so this is the last response I will make to any calling themself "Anonymous". Even those who, like the person I'm responding to now, are obviously intellegent and articulate. PLEASE: Put up or shut up.EllenJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-3162636249135601542013-06-06T10:05:31.983-05:002013-06-06T10:05:31.983-05:00@Alex and @John,
Ohio is a control state, so like...@Alex and @John,<br /><br />Ohio is a control state, so likely the only Weller 12 in NE Ohio is in my house. But yea, Eagle Rare is around and thankfully Elijah Craig 12 is as well and cheaper than Cleveland Whiskey. <br /><br />I haven't had Cleveland Whiskey, mainly because I'm more annoyed he isn't distilling yet. I want a real craft distillery in Cleveland not a flavoring operation. I hope Lix eventually does distill, but I'm doubtful that is going to happen.<br />Dan in NE Ohionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-12812719668009200352013-06-05T21:55:15.495-05:002013-06-05T21:55:15.495-05:00I agree. Nothing good could be invented in a gara...I agree. Nothing good could be invented in a garage (exceptions: aviation, the lightbulb, apple computers). I'm sure - even if the technology worked, the big distilleries would still prefer to sit on the stuff for a decade instead of monetizing today, as they are more about the tradition than making money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-74983944068447104582013-06-05T15:46:01.682-05:002013-06-05T15:46:01.682-05:00John,
No need to wait for someone to provide you ...John,<br /><br />No need to wait for someone to provide you with a quality, 12 year-old bourbon for a fair price--plenty of the traditional producers already do. <br /><br />Buffalo Trace's W.L. Weller 12yr bourbon is a favorite of many, and usually costs around $28 a bottle.<br /><br />You may also want to try some that aren't 12-15 years old, as that can be too long for some bourbons. For example, Eagle Rare 10yr usually costs about $30, and many people like it.<br /><br />If you haven't already, I would recommend the bourbons on <a href="http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2012/05/ten-suggestions-for-bourbon-beginners.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> list from Chuck. With the exception of Woodford Reserve, most of these are $30 or less.<br /><br />That's less than the stuff from Cleveland, and some people would say it's a certainty that they taste better too.<br /><br />Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-76125857725122780232013-06-05T13:33:59.986-05:002013-06-05T13:33:59.986-05:00I am from North East Ohio so I should be one of th... I am from North East Ohio so I should be one of the people being excited about this product, but after having it multiple times (I ran out and bought 4 bottles of the first bottling and 1 of the second because of my love of local products) I just can't. The whiskey is hot, not talking about high proof, one dimensional, thin, and the only flavors that you get is varnish and heavy wood, like you sucked on a toothpick for an hour. <br /><br /> I am love new ideas and am all for technology, but his process doesn't work. I wonder if its the result of exposing the Bourbon to both sides of the staves, charred and other wise, that would not normally occur, or just a combination of a multitude of things.<br /><br /> I hope that someone does figure out a way to quicken the process. I love whiskey and if someone is able to provide me with a quality product that mimics a Bourbon aged 12-15 years for fair price, I'll buy it by the case, but for now, I'll have to keep on waiting for that to happen.<br /><br />John in OhioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-26859702417283195482013-06-05T12:55:53.250-05:002013-06-05T12:55:53.250-05:00I've come across so many of these types over t...I've come across so many of these types over the years. They all think they've discovered how to shortcut the system', and they're so emotionally attached to their new-fangled process that they're unable to critically, dispassionately assess the end result. <br /><br />And - to a person - when I've provided them with feedback that doesn't lavish praise on the product, they all shake their head as if I just don't get it.<br /><br />Glad I don't.Mat Garretsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-72873239198063495752013-06-05T12:03:59.130-05:002013-06-05T12:03:59.130-05:00This is my thought to a "T", "Still...This is my thought to a "T", "Still, you have to admire the sheer moxie of someone who thinks he has developed something in his garage that has eluded professional whiskey makers for centuries." I'm sure Maker's, Beam, Brown Forman, Diaggeo have all spent large sums of R&D money trying various methods to age "faster". Seems they must have found nothing beats time in a barrel.Whiskey Detectiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15765085854599764488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-89839629302181041982013-06-05T11:03:23.170-05:002013-06-05T11:03:23.170-05:00Thanks for this post and your perspective. As you ...Thanks for this post and your perspective. As you know, it didn't settle well with me either.merdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511185184630261701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-66760742270164575222013-06-05T09:37:34.101-05:002013-06-05T09:37:34.101-05:00And the internet will never work and only the rich...And the internet will never work and only the rich have cell phones. Nothing will ever replace my horse.<br /><br />BobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-91327764393257683022013-06-05T09:26:08.674-05:002013-06-05T09:26:08.674-05:00I'm really surprised by this post. It's ...I'm really surprised by this post. It's a lengthy discussion (complaint, really) about how the whiskey is made and marketed, but there isn't a single word about how it tastes. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-24883063042878263302013-06-05T08:42:21.384-05:002013-06-05T08:42:21.384-05:00I had this stuff courtesy of a friend a couple wee...I had this stuff courtesy of a friend a couple weeks ago, and to my taste, it was absolutely undrinkable. I was really kind of appalled that this could be considered an acceptable substitute for actual whiskey by anyone.<br /><br />I guess the mixologists love it because you can't drink it straight...you HAVE to mix it!sam knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-40199068939965259842013-06-05T08:28:00.708-05:002013-06-05T08:28:00.708-05:00Sucks when innovation happens so abruptly that it ...Sucks when innovation happens so abruptly that it catches people off guard. You always end up with this, "I'm confused by new technology so I'm going to shun it" crowd - that is, until everyone else is using it. How embarrassing is that? I wouldn't know.<br /><br />'Direct current' was also the way electricity was delivered in this country before Westinghouse came along with the alternative we now use daily. I assume the so called 'experts' of the whiskey community will pull an Edison and in similar fashion spread disinformation, publically kill animals, and all-out lobby against this threat to whiskey tradition.<br /><br />As an American I embrace innovation and ingenuity because its what makes this place so great. Someone comes out with a way to make TV's bigger, better, and cheaper by using LCDs and I bet ol' Chuck doesn't write a blog about how he's going to hold on to that solid state, vacuum tube set.<br /><br />What makes an 'expert' anyway? Is there a certification? I've had the Pappy's, frequented the Basil's, toured distilleries. I like this Cleveland stuff. So go ahead, don't buy it. More for me and the rest of us who are proud of the science behind it coming from Cleveland.<br /><br />BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-9225093955773572372013-06-05T07:34:42.720-05:002013-06-05T07:34:42.720-05:00Though it is written with enthusiasm, I find the N...Though it is written with enthusiasm, I find the NPR piece a bit more damning. After all it mentions the appeal of joining the "bourbon boom" instead of being a <i>lover</i> of the spirit itself.<br /><br />As for the whiskey, it is sort of shocking to read about folks who think that <i>aging alone</i> is what makes good or bad whiskey, despite the fact that a whiskey that is aged too long can taste woody. What is revolting in itself is the cut up barrel. This is a whole different animal than bourbon at this point, which is why I think the comparison to the original, un-molested but young whiskey is quite warranted.<br /><br />That said, it is a damn gimmick (and I find Chuck's short book/Bourbon County Reader article on Buffalo Trace's small barrel experience illuminating) but gimmicks do sell. (The shelves of the biggest liquor stores in my city certainly tell this tale.)<br /><br />It's a disservice to the actual craft distillers... in Colorado you can buy a young and sweet, but enjoyable bourbon from Peach Street Distillery (who do use full size barrels), for example, that really is a craft product. The same is true elsewhere. <br /><br />If I'm going to buy NDP whiskey, it's going to be from an NDP that's less obnoxious. Despite their sins, why pay for Cleveland Whiskey when you can get something like Bulleit Rye via LDI for $20 a bottle? <br /><br />Fah. Cleveland Whiskey is quite... steamy... in poor taste, haha.ezweavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11562584824255906432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-65166668523516615692013-06-05T07:24:57.122-05:002013-06-05T07:24:57.122-05:00Tom from Cleveland Whiskey email is tom@clevelandw...Tom from Cleveland Whiskey email is tom@clevelandwhiskey.com. The hang tag on the bottle says to let him know what you think. I sure did and my review was harsh but honest. I will say Tom responded back that he was glad to have the feedback. He then added the what is getting to be typically micro distilling marketing spin of please try our later forthcoming batches; they will be much better.Wadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02801508225614359464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-14195809974511650542013-06-05T06:36:53.843-05:002013-06-05T06:36:53.843-05:00Richnimrod said;
"...strangler-of-babies-in-t...Richnimrod said;<br />"...strangler-of-babies-in-their-cradles.." Wow, I love that you're so tactful in your description of this character. Reading between the lines, I gather you don't care too much for him, his methods, or his attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of at least a few unsuspecting consumers. Me neither; nor the media types who seem so anxious to abet this charlatan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-43138085389336830092013-06-05T06:19:50.588-05:002013-06-05T06:19:50.588-05:00I love it....I enjoyed that little piece of bourbo...I love it....I enjoyed that little piece of bourbon whiskey honestyGreghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03084821666852687199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-77849423757392306022013-06-05T00:37:32.160-05:002013-06-05T00:37:32.160-05:00It's a free country. Buy whatever you want.It's a free country. Buy whatever you want.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-11270914501909323832013-06-05T00:15:31.259-05:002013-06-05T00:15:31.259-05:00Perhaps that is true, it does not prove that his m...Perhaps that is true, it does not prove that his method improves anything, but if it tastes good, and it's priced right, why not drink it. I'm sure it's different than it was prior to his method anyway, whether this is better or worse is yet to be determined. It's similar to wine barrel finished whiskies, who's to say if it's better or worse. <br /><br />WilliamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-85626544619100477892013-06-05T00:04:02.463-05:002013-06-05T00:04:02.463-05:00I say comparing it to Knob or Bulleit is wrong bec...I say comparing it to Knob or Bulleit is wrong because that doesn't tell you what you need to know. Only by comparing his processed whiskey to the whiskey he started with can you determine what his process actually does. With his training, he knows that's the real proof of concept, so why isn't he setting up <i>that</i> comparison?Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-83630439688833754352013-06-04T23:37:30.654-05:002013-06-04T23:37:30.654-05:00Prime rib is wonderful but why wait around for the...Prime rib is wonderful but why wait around for the dry aging, trimming and roasting when it tastes the same pulverized with a food processor and microwaved into Cleveland Meatloaf?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com