tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post7479806055163184870..comments2024-03-17T14:10:05.912-05:00Comments on The Chuck Cowdery Blog: Excessive Exuberance: The Van Winkle PhenomenonChuck Cowderyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-9817209464148224982012-12-26T18:54:25.352-06:002012-12-26T18:54:25.352-06:00Great commentary, Chuck!...I would venture to say ...Great commentary, Chuck!...I would venture to say the only thing I have a slight disagreement with is that PVW should quell the demand...But what they are really selling besides decent whiskey, is exclusivity...another discussion...but bottom line is that I think it is better that the Maxim/Celeb crowd focuses on this whiskey and not something really extraordinary and more affordable...PVW can take the brunt of the idiots with money...and we can sacrifice the ability to buy it to them in return for the ability to buy something they havent "discovered" yet...let them sit on waiting lists...it makes them special...Happy Holidays!TODD APPELhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18375839399441519255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-15102319906427881142012-12-13T14:27:56.341-06:002012-12-13T14:27:56.341-06:00Hey T,
I am in LA and got that same comment from ...Hey T,<br /><br />I am in LA and got that same comment from some places I go to.<br /><br />Do you mind sharing the places you refer to?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-64242791606577185192012-12-07T23:45:46.396-06:002012-12-07T23:45:46.396-06:00Don't forget that a larger allotment, due to h...Don't forget that a larger allotment, due to hype, is going overseas. The Taiwanese are going full bore into bourbon and the mark-up is even higher for this market. Also, big customers, a la Bevmo, are demanding a cut of the action and squeezing out the smaller specialty and mom n pop stores. It all snowballs together.ChrisWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-14255455650112824682012-12-07T13:30:32.930-06:002012-12-07T13:30:32.930-06:00a manager at a store in minnesota informed me that...a manager at a store in minnesota informed me that they could only get large allocations of the van winkle lineup if they could sell even larger amounts of something called mcgillicuddy's. this may be a local distributor issue, but suggests that the craze for van winkle benefits more than just the van winkle family.mongonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-25640173470661283092012-12-06T22:38:36.421-06:002012-12-06T22:38:36.421-06:00Great piece. While some lazy journalists shoulder...Great piece. While some lazy journalists shoulder much blame for the hype, I cast more blame on "fashion conscious" consumers who don't think for themselves or read between the lines. While I will purchase a high end bourbon after Christmas/New Years and Easter, I generally stick to BT, Weller, Knob Creek, etc which can be had for under 25-30 bucks. One doesn't have to spend too much money for good quality. A friend (who doesn't drink bourbon) asked me for recommendations for his home bar for guests, I gave him a list of good booze at good price points (under 30 bucks, for sipping or cocktails), but he only wanted to know what the "expensive stuff" was. I didn't mention PWV to him, but those are the vain people (or trying to impress others) that the journalists have hooked. Oh well, as bad as the hyping is for bourbon, it's worse for wine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-57248537121463809262012-12-06T08:40:20.925-06:002012-12-06T08:40:20.925-06:00All of the PVW hype is so easily skirted in OK as ...All of the PVW hype is so easily skirted in OK as our total state allocation is 0 bottles. HEY DRISCOLL!!!! Come to Oklahoma and hang up your shingle!Justin Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-20601151305594007282012-12-05T22:53:29.536-06:002012-12-05T22:53:29.536-06:00Tim - I can't speak for all markets, but in Ar...Tim - I can't speak for all markets, but in Arizona, I haven't seen even a hint of distributors raising their prices in any significant manner on any Buffalo Trace product over the past few years. And FWIW Republic is the local BT/VW distributor.alligatorcharnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-49380353258296127702012-12-05T19:53:40.815-06:002012-12-05T19:53:40.815-06:00I didn't mention William Larue Weller (the BTA...I didn't mention William Larue Weller (the BTAC wheater) because it's really its own thing and not similar to any of the other Wellers or Van Winkles.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-46777234478580124142012-12-05T18:52:08.133-06:002012-12-05T18:52:08.133-06:00Heard that, Chuck!Heard that, Chuck!SteveBMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203167407546384904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-48441358296893025432012-12-05T18:33:51.374-06:002012-12-05T18:33:51.374-06:00Nice read, Chuck. And I completely agree Earlier t...Nice read, Chuck. And I completely agree Earlier this week, I read something on Straight Bourbon where even the K&L rep had to comment.<br /><br />My PVW contact didn't call me this time and you know what, that's totally fine by me. Plenty of equally good whisky, as you say.<br /><br />Just picked up a bottle of the acclaimed, some say legendary, Lot No. 40 Canadian rye, and it's doing just fine on its own, or in a Manhattan, at more than half the price.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />YannisYannisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-48638855893372106872012-12-05T12:00:41.763-06:002012-12-05T12:00:41.763-06:00Always worth repeating your information on Pappy....Always worth repeating your information on Pappy. I read about this with your discussion with John Hansell. http://bit.ly/Vknc6C<br /><br />Is Pappy worth the release prices? Maybe.<br />Is Pappy worth the eBay prices? <b>NO</b>.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395986215020617270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-45652960576247887722012-12-05T11:30:49.879-06:002012-12-05T11:30:49.879-06:00@sku interestingly, one of our once-revered whiske...@sku interestingly, one of our once-revered whiskey buying institutions in the San Fernando Valley has done just that (along with BTAC). While I was there recently we got on the topic. He said he wasn't carrying any of it because it wasn't worth the hassle to him and he said it was probably his most enjoyable fall in a long time since he didn't have to deal with it. Sounded like he had no regrets and no plans to return to dealing with it. Given Driscoll's public vexation with it too (remember when their servers crashed due to people scripting against it to buy?) I wouldn't be stunned to see K&L drop it. I can't imagine it's worth all the overhead that they have to deal - phone calls, emails, website traffic, etc - for what likely amounts to little more than a dozen bottles or so between all three of their locations. <br /><br />The aforementioned SFV retailer is improving lately, by the way. Much better than this spring's sorry state.<br /><br />-TTim Readhttp://www.scotchandicecream.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-31542213140749468962012-12-05T10:17:58.369-06:002012-12-05T10:17:58.369-06:00Couple of notes:
1) This year and last, the deman...Couple of notes:<br /><br />1) This year and last, the demand for on-premises sales has skyrocketed. In Dallas/Ft.Worth the majority (80%) of VW products went to wholesale - because restaurants and bars want to be able to sell pours of this coveted juice - or at the least have a bottle on the bar that people will buzz about ("oh my, did you hear Bar X has Pappy 20 - it's only $60 a glass!")<br /><br />2)Despite what Alligatorchar believes, distribution IS impacting the price. Republic, for example (one of the largest distributors) spiked a 50% price hike on all VW products this year which impacts many, many markets.<br /><br />That's not at the behest of the VWs, mind you, word is that Sazerac has only marginally upped their VW asking price over the last few years (a couple of bucks - nothing dramatic). It's being driven by Distribution.<br /><br />And, factor that the bulk is now going to wholesale customers - not retail - where the consumer mark-up is even more insane, and you get some ridonkulous prices (I've seen Pappy 23 at $150 a pour).<br /><br />3) Everything with a Pappy brand on it has at least some - if not all - Buffalo Trace juice in it (yes, even the Rye!). It's not the coveted Stitzel-Weller juice that started this craze years back.<br /><br />Ironic that a brand renowned among enthusiasts for the legendary whiskey in the bottle no longer contains that whiskey - and is bigger than it has ever been.Tim Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09389751601810093506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-37473215172522827712012-12-05T07:58:02.330-06:002012-12-05T07:58:02.330-06:00Chuck, you mention that the Weller 12 is similar. ...Chuck, you mention that the Weller 12 is similar. What, if there is any, the difference between the BTAC Weller and a Winkle product other than is uncut and unfiltered?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-72298442006758902422012-12-05T07:10:51.044-06:002012-12-05T07:10:51.044-06:00Chuck - nice article. Straight forward writing an...Chuck - nice article. Straight forward writing and throwing a bit of cold water on the VW hype. I have the VW line of bourbons in my bunker and while good, there are other offerings that I like as much if not better. I received an e-mail from a local ABC just the other night; it was a long e-mail about the soon to be available VW line and how getting a bottle will be first come first served. I didn't bother responding because there's no value in fighting for a single bottle. I'm in no way saying PVW isn't good....but seriously....so are a lot of other bourbons.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03084821666852687199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-3782249049652031222012-12-04T23:40:59.623-06:002012-12-04T23:40:59.623-06:00Nothing I said is a criticism of Julian. The pheno...Nothing I said is a criticism of Julian. The phenomenon is a double-edged sword for his company, but there's virtually nothing he can do to 'cool down' the market a little. My criticism is for the lazy consumers and lazy journalists. <br /><br />And to think I was afraid I used the word 'lazy' too much.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-11641049243304692322012-12-04T23:35:47.737-06:002012-12-04T23:35:47.737-06:00Changes are always a possibility, but Weller isn&#...Changes are always a possibility, but Weller isn't going away. <br /><br />As for trading VW for BTAC, that would have to be between the retailers and the distributors. Effectively, two retailers would have to agree to trade some or all of their allotment of one for the other, then the distributor would execute the deal. Not something Sazerac can really affect because of the 3-tier distribution system.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-68358866394937364192012-12-04T21:16:08.435-06:002012-12-04T21:16:08.435-06:00Thanks Chuck for telling the real story behind the...Thanks Chuck for telling the real story behind the Van Winkle hype.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-66052959207170358002012-12-04T20:53:31.336-06:002012-12-04T20:53:31.336-06:00The once universal praise for all things Van Winkl...The once universal praise for all things Van Winkle has taken a turn for the worst on occasion. Personally, I just can't understand the criticism I find here and there. Julian has done well to put an excellent whiskey on the market for many years. Whiskey is a product that takes a long time to make so there isn't a magic lever he can pull to make a bunch more on demand. He's putting his stocks out on a consistent basis to meet demand the best he can especially considering the multiple sources he's had to navigate. Regardless of complaints about provenance his line has maintained a reputation for consistency and excellence. He commands a modestly higher price most years due to the demand for his product. The crazy markups some retailer ask aren't due to the anyone jacking prices way way up at either the distillery or distribution. It seems to me Julian has managed his brands reasonably and fairly. <br /><br />I ask what should he be expected to do differently that would make more sense than what he is already doing?alligatorcharnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-24793600524984667062012-12-04T18:56:38.562-06:002012-12-04T18:56:38.562-06:00I've had my suspicions about the Van Winkle li...I've had my suspicions about the Van Winkle line and your article has confirmed it. Though the VW whiskies are great whiskies, I could never understand the craziness over them. I'd heard at one point that BT was possibly discontinuing or making changes to the Weller line. Is this true?Ethan Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17821307350168760344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-37969403974817164102012-12-04T18:35:17.803-06:002012-12-04T18:35:17.803-06:00Chuck, Sku, or anyone with information about this,...Chuck, Sku, or anyone with information about this, I'd be interested in knowing if retail stores can arrange with Sazerac to basically forgo Pappy or any Van Winkle labels in favor of getting more of a BTAC allotment. I bring this up because it seems like among enthusiasts the Pappy-Rat Race gets worse every year, leading some to just not bother getting on a wait list. That said, almost all enthusiasts would like at least one of the BTAC bottlings if they could get their hands on one. Not everyone wants all 5 but everyone wants at least one of the BTAC. <br /><br />I guess the main logic is, given the size of retail store waitlists, you have to assume a vast majority are 1) only interested in pappy and 2) not regulars of the store. So can a store just decide to sell BTAC, get more of it in place of pappy, and have an easier way of making more longterm bourbon customers happy? <br /><br />I imagine Sazerac would never agree to this, but I gotta think there are some improvements possible in the year end premium bourbon market. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-87832172481288982072012-12-04T18:00:33.810-06:002012-12-04T18:00:33.810-06:00I think if I was in the retail business, I'd b...I think if I was in the retail business, I'd be tempted to just say no to the Van Winkles. It just seems like it's more trouble than it's worth for anyone but the big chain stores. Given that it's going to leave most customers unsatisfied, why even stock it? Then, instead of saying "you've got to enter our lottery or be on this list," they can just say, "sorry, we don't carry it."skuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00487419662314518931noreply@blogger.com