tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post7305284016842947098..comments2024-03-19T20:31:23.141-05:00Comments on The Chuck Cowdery Blog: The Failure of Diageo's Orphan Barrel ProjectChuck Cowderyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-30548589759668790052016-04-09T19:06:56.560-05:002016-04-09T19:06:56.560-05:00I guess the whole concept of marketing is lost on ...I guess the whole concept of marketing is lost on you. Good graphic design and bottles along with a mysterious story appeals to many people. I am for all I intents and purposes a purist when it comes to many things but calling this line a failure because it doesn't allign with your whiskey ideology is pretty intellectually dishonest. The truth is, for as many people as there are that despise everything about this concept there are just as many that enjoy it. It's all about perceived value. Enough people were obviously willing to buy the stuff up and cause it to become rare in its own right so to call it a failure is kind of nonsensical. I do think respecting the true history of each barrel and those who made them by showing mash bill etc is also a very good idea as far as marketing and respecting the history of the craft. It is just not what they decided to do. This is a massive corporate entity we are talking about here and I'm quite sure some pretty precise marketing science was applied to the line and how it has been release. This is why America is great. If you don't like a product don't buy it and feel free to voice your opinion about it too, but at least be fair when labeling something a failure. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-5825039102933692222016-01-24T16:59:24.278-06:002016-01-24T16:59:24.278-06:00Lost Prophet is my favorite of series; Old Blowhar...Lost Prophet is my favorite of series; Old Blowhard, Barterhouse, Rhetoric & Forged Oak. Totally different whiskey as well. Mashbill would be nice to know, suspect low ryeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-62458931821221668582016-01-20T20:57:50.365-06:002016-01-20T20:57:50.365-06:00Unless they've sold out they should be everywh...Unless they've sold out they should be everywhere. Ask your whiskey monger.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-12210000069355427522016-01-20T18:07:45.348-06:002016-01-20T18:07:45.348-06:00where can you get the lost prophet and old Blowhar...where can you get the lost prophet and old Blowhard? Ben from Floridanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-88995534079316675472015-07-24T14:30:02.279-05:002015-07-24T14:30:02.279-05:00All said and done - while I think the Orphan Barre...All said and done - while I think the Orphan Barrel Story has some holes, hasn't it produced some decent whiskey, and a lot to talk about? And, sin't creating a stir what marketing is supposed to do?<br /><br />Some of the OB offerings are good. Some are not. That is true for *all* distillers. Agree for those bourbon history buffs, the lineage of the OB stock would make for an interesting tale. I don't condone deceptive marketing, but, I don't ever recall seeing Diageo ever saying these barrels were anything other than found barrels of old whiskey. Other bourbon bloggers stated different legends of the possible lineage, but, the company stayed out of the fray. They didn't do anything to stop it, because, well, it fueled sales. This should teach us all a lesson: Where a market exists, someone will create a product to fill that market. Bourbon is in full swing, and if a bourbon person sees a new bottle with a high price tag, well, it drives them curiously nuts. I've learned to not always expect the best of an expensive bottle. Even the fabled Elijah Craig, a great bourbon, missed with it's last 23 yr old release. I spent the $200, bought the bottle, and was overwhelmed by oak.<br /><br />The thing I would like to remind folks of is that Diageo owns lots of distilleries that make a tremendous amount of good whisky. They own the Classic Malts of Scotland (Dalwhinnie, Talisker, Craggamore, Oban, Lagavulin, Glenkinchie), as well as Cao Isla, Cardhu, Knockando, The Singleton, Clynelish, etc.-Artiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14435462654960142788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-38311683031700313562015-04-30T12:52:24.670-05:002015-04-30T12:52:24.670-05:00
The Whiskey is good.
Get over it.
I am new to Bo...<br />The Whiskey is good. <br />Get over it.<br />I am new to Bourbons but this collection is awesome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-46600293151464116712015-03-16T21:26:10.714-05:002015-03-16T21:26:10.714-05:00I tend to agree with a few of the dissenters. I do...I tend to agree with a few of the dissenters. I don't think that the types of people buying an $80+ bottle of whiskey are necessarily uninformed. I happen to not really care for Barterhouse or Rhetoric, but Lost Prophet and Forged Oak are exceptional values. I think that Orphan Barrel/Diageo has been relatively open about all this information (to the fact that a simple Google search will give you the mash bill and distillery of origin of every label released so far.) I am an above-average bourbon consumer, and I am not sure I've ever seen a whiskey with the char level listed on the bottle- maybe with the exception of some Parker's Heritage Collection expressions, and many brands are so muddied that even finding a mashbill is impossible. I would have loved to see these (especially Forged Oak) bottled at barrel strength, but that is a far-fetched expectation and not concurrent with the bourbon market. What is also not concurrent with the bourbon market is a 20+ year aged whiskey widely available for under $150. I applaud Diageo/Orphan Barrel for that, and even if that were the only consideration, I'd call the brand a success.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-58126835725755179252015-03-02T18:14:41.582-06:002015-03-02T18:14:41.582-06:00Chuck, thank you. I found your information fascina...Chuck, thank you. I found your information fascinating but then again I am not the average Bourbon Snob (self professed). I have sought out and purchased all five releases and have back up bottles to savor down the road. My pallet absolutely discerned good to great bourbon than is accessible and not being sold for ridicuolus money like Pappy. The finish of all of these bourbons is long and lucious. I agree also with many who posted comments about wishing for a barrel proof or at least 110 proof. Likewise I agree with the post who declared that the watering down of such antique bourbons to calm the oak is a valid point. Let's face it, Old Blowhard is way to woody even at 90 proof. I use a few drops of this in some of the other Orphans to boost barrel flavor; does'nt take much. Alsway love to learn more about bourbon and rye. Love the flavor of the Orphan Barrel releases but also agree with you on the marketing and especially the names. Well, I am raising my snifter of Lost Prophet with a tablespoon of Old Blowhard and a shot of Barterhouse added- these bourbons mix incredibly well to create amazing flavors!Randazzlerhttp://www.reverbnation.com/randazzlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-79953573282231613402015-01-25T17:01:53.174-06:002015-01-25T17:01:53.174-06:00I may have missed the boat on this, but as a love ...I may have missed the boat on this, but as a love of Bourbon, and particular Small Batch I'll say I've enjoyed the Lost Prophet. At the age and price point it is well worth it. seattle foodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233653282851040229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-8130975232408671632014-11-24T09:42:16.914-06:002014-11-24T09:42:16.914-06:00My opinions or product preferences aside, I purcha...My opinions or product preferences aside, I purchased multiple Balcones TSM, regardless at 15% less than the price named. I haven't & won't purchase Orphan Barrel expressions. I can bloviate with the best, but my wallet speaks loudest. Obfuscation of product provenance pales in significance compared to Diageo corp. practices e,g, distilleries as fungible cf. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/tequila-firm-buys-whiskey-brand-30713043.html, predatory investment capital http://www.just-drinks.com/comment/one-year-on_id114696.aspx and transnational assimilation of criminal operations http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/11/as-companies-expand-how-can-they-patrol-local-markets/ , none of which behaviors are unique to their enterprise.morlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10929346105535104669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-90999596633874302252014-11-24T06:57:24.688-06:002014-11-24T06:57:24.688-06:00Talk about beating a dead horse...
Bottom line sho...Talk about beating a dead horse...<br />Bottom line should be, Mash Bill, Method of Distillation, Location of Distillation, Location of Aging, and the bottom of the bottom line after some integrity would be nose and taste! Everything about intregrity has left this country. As the result, some "good ole folk" making Whiskey in micro-distilleries seems to ring true. (I don't meen the foo foo yuppie micro-distilleries of the urban turf. Take a walk into the country, and it can be suburban country, and find someone making Whiskey like it was made in the late 1700's to mid 1800's and you will find Whiskey worth all your time and attention. Once again, american banter has lost focus on the target!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-52831403628097960662014-11-22T07:33:09.675-06:002014-11-22T07:33:09.675-06:00Hmmm discussion here is gone and the whole subject...Hmmm discussion here is gone and the whole subject and the article became tools of attacking the other side :(<br />1. I would want to see on each bottle (front label) that states distillery where the product was made and where it was aged. Most bourbons and American whiskeys do not mention that. Surprisingly with all the blah blah on "Orphan Barrels", they state where it was made and where it was aged.<br />2. I would love to see more honesty on the bottles, not elaborate made up "folk" stories on the labels like "Orphan Barrel". Just read couple bottle labels from micro-distilleries. Puts a bad taste in my mouth about the whole micro-distillery movement.<br />3. Price to value ratio. There are many offenders, but “Orphan Barrell” whiskeys are very reasonable priced. Who can find another 20+year old whiskey for less $100 that also tastes good? For comparison: Barterhouse 20yo cost $75 in a controlled state of Michigan - Balcones Texas Single Malt which was aged just for a few months cost $71.Tadasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-82439516885573022562014-11-20T21:21:37.525-06:002014-11-20T21:21:37.525-06:00I prefer to be an informed consumer. That seems t...I prefer to be an informed consumer. That seems to be contrary to the desire of most US whiskey distillers. I want to know what I am buying. I agree with your write up. They are using smoke and mirrors when the true story would be much preferred.Charles_in_TNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07344162091777155793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-85155123355513560642014-11-20T12:34:29.166-06:002014-11-20T12:34:29.166-06:00In opinion pieces the messenger is the message.In opinion pieces the messenger is the message.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-85788160153424386752014-11-20T11:31:47.979-06:002014-11-20T11:31:47.979-06:00For the record, 25-30 years ago I did some marketi...For the record, 25-30 years ago I did some marketing work for Brown-Forman and Jim Beam. During that same period I also did the same kind of work for Diageo-predecessor United Distillers, and several other drinks companies. I'm also accustomed to the tactic of attacking the messenger when you can't argue with the message. Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-16393331316183594912014-11-20T11:12:10.841-06:002014-11-20T11:12:10.841-06:00Good lord Brown-Forman and Beam must have paid you...Good lord Brown-Forman and Beam must have paid you well back in the day, Chuck. You just can't stop hating on Diageo. And that's cool, freedom of expression etc. But most flesh-and-blood whiskey folk I chat with at tasting events (in these dubious times) deeply suspect or wholly believe the vast majority of producers are completely full of sh*t... across the board. <br />So Diageo muckraking ain't gonna persuade us to view Diageo as an outlier. It just wont. <br />And as failed concepts go, Sinatra Select was as self-serving a d*ck move as whiskey marketing provided in 2014. I know Brown-Forman is an organization that has helped you in the past, but it's pretty damn self righteous of you to cite Dieageo for a lack of transparency and authenticity while you're using your platform to play favorites and give some bullsh*tters a complete pass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-18061005571350836462014-11-20T10:06:38.225-06:002014-11-20T10:06:38.225-06:00I agree with Guy. Good for Diageo for milking the ...I agree with Guy. Good for Diageo for milking the market. They're not idiots and they know the general populace is essentially braindead with loads if cash for this stuff. The avg consumer *should* be able to spot the slick marketing and gimmicky-ness, but then again they'd have to actually care enough. They do not, that's pretty clear. <br /><br />If the market did not demand the 'Orphans' there would be none. They'll sell all of it and they'll make their dough. That's what they're supposed to do!!Funky Tapehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09271221564702147756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-21198972581353780552014-11-19T21:04:03.106-06:002014-11-19T21:04:03.106-06:00I believe Harlequin Romance is basically a produce...I believe Harlequin Romance is basically a producer of sensationalized fiction. I can see how Diageo personnel must be familiar with their work. It's probably required reading for this add clerks. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-78039165477208567872014-11-19T17:11:16.908-06:002014-11-19T17:11:16.908-06:00If your liquid is so great, Guy, why not tell us a...If your liquid is so great, Guy, why not tell us all about it? That's all I'm saying.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-7142155800452149792014-11-19T17:07:44.873-06:002014-11-19T17:07:44.873-06:00Is this the authentic Guy Smith, for real? If so, ...Is this the authentic Guy Smith, for real? If so, he has also popped in to Fred's place as VC of Piehole: <a href="http://fredminnick.com/flavored-whiskey-frat-boys-want-piehole-apple-pie/#comment-10883" rel="nofollow">Fred - Piehole</a><br /><br />Shows a bit of a sense of humor anyway, I guess.Dan Z.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-72499812870295024242014-11-19T16:23:16.648-06:002014-11-19T16:23:16.648-06:00Oh Chuck! It’s so much fun to know that Diageo can...Oh Chuck! It’s so much fun to know that Diageo can elicit so much passion from you. Not sure why you hold such antipathy for a group that has been providing people with awesome liquids since the 1700s: whiskeys, whiskys, vodkas, beers, gins, even raki and baijiu (they’re not from here) and many other cool products. Every minute, around the world and at your corner bar, billions of people are enjoying the fruits of our master distillers, master blenders, brewmasters, vintners and the tens of thousands of people who support their craftsmanship. Dude, we kinda know what we’re doing. I’m distressed (actually I’m not distressed at all, but the lawyers made me say it that way) that you don’t like us. But here’s the deal: whiskies (no matter how silly you want to be on how to spell things…kinda like behavior and behaviour …no, not yours) are suddenly popular with hosts of folks who a few years back were drinking wine spritzers (gag!). Why? Because they like the taste. They like the romance (we’ll get someone over at Harlequin to explain romance for you!) Hey, they like it. Celebrate that. Kinda silly to always be taking a shot at the corporate suits just because they have a catchy name for some rare and awesome liquids (awesome by all accounts, even yours). Lastly, and this was the fun part: in your comment above you said we missed a “chance to do something cool.” Being the arbiter of “cool” is a heavy responsibility. We’ll all be watching for more cool. <br /><br />Cheers!<br /><br />Your Obed. Servant,<br /><br />guy<br /><br />Guy L. Smith<br />EVP of Cool Diageo <br />and<br />Vice Chairman of the Jeremiah Weed (whiski) CompanyGuy L. Smithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-35525634664025906352014-11-19T14:30:23.472-06:002014-11-19T14:30:23.472-06:00Fred Minnick's take on Lost Prophet.<a href="http://fredminnick.com/lost-prophet-beginning-sourced-whiskey-war/" rel="nofollow">Fred Minnick's take on Lost Prophet.</a>Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-65173531758025142832014-11-19T14:04:38.921-06:002014-11-19T14:04:38.921-06:00At those prices and proof along with the silly mar...At those prices and proof along with the silly marketing schemes, I'll save my money and spend it on very good and reasonably priced bourbons. Quintilian B. Nastyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442277796099767409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-15001500830118936022014-11-19T13:02:42.891-06:002014-11-19T13:02:42.891-06:00The observation that many people don't care ab...The observation that many people don't care about provenance is certainly valid. Obviously, that's Diageo's target. <i>My</i> opinion is that they had a chance to do something cool and didn't. That, to me, is a fail.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-60070219543700739152014-11-19T12:41:27.843-06:002014-11-19T12:41:27.843-06:00Of course it is possible that admitting to the pro...Of course it is possible that admitting to the progenesis would require admitting to an inferior production that was shunned for years out of fear it had created an inferior product.<br /><br />The reason it is so low proof? Hiding the offensive compounds?<br /><br />The reason they don't want you know know the true history? You would know you were paying over $100 too much for an inferior product.<br /><br />Why admit to failure... when you can market it as "Limited" and sell it to unsuspecting people who think they are actually spending a premium to purchase a high limited edition... when in reality they are wasting money on a massively inferior product?<br /><br />I'm not saying that's what is happening here.... but it sure seems plausible given how others have treated this batch, how much there is, and how little they are willing to let on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com