tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post6930515335963269066..comments2024-03-17T14:10:05.912-05:00Comments on The Chuck Cowdery Blog: Let's Be Clear About This Tennessee Whiskey ThingChuck Cowderyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-7001849804586318922014-03-23T20:04:18.022-05:002014-03-23T20:04:18.022-05:00FYI I linked a url to this blog entry from a denve...FYI I linked a url to this blog entry from a denverpost.com article and got a thumbs down vote. Keep it classy, Denver. Infermayshun an' reedin's fer dumdums. merdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511185184630261701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-13074534439693748062014-03-21T08:26:57.207-05:002014-03-21T08:26:57.207-05:00In any other state in the US the only requirement ...In any other state in the US the only requirement per TTB rules and regulations to label a whiskey as <br />__(Name of State)__ Whiskey is that it must be defined as a straight whiskey made in that state. Why does Jack have the right to take that away from the whiskey producers in Tennessee? Why isn't it good enough to call it Jack Daniel's Tennessee Whiskey. Everyone will know that its not an "inferior product"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-54275228906009567632014-03-21T02:27:20.526-05:002014-03-21T02:27:20.526-05:00Two points worth qualifying in this TN barrel deba...Two points worth qualifying in this TN barrel debate.<br /><br />China is no El Dorado. 98% of spirit consumption is baujiu. After 15 years of whisky marketing China still only depletes just over 2 million cases (>0.3% of legal spirit consumprion) with three brands controlling over 80% of sales through on-premise bars - Chivas Regal was about 50%, Walker 25% & Jack Daniel's around 6% (off-premise barely exists in mainland China, it all on-premise socialising). Drinking, like eating food is still a communal, cultural ritual. And developing markets grow at a moderate rate especially when there is no category precedence and when premium pricing for imported spirits makes it a luxury purchase amongst affordable cohorts. China's whiskey growth is coming off a very small base. <br /><br />The other issue is comparable size between Walker & Daniel's. It's how you describe these two levanthians that give you two different answers. Johnnie Walker's total brand portfoilo (Red, Black, Blue etc.) is the largest and about to surpass 20 milion 9L cases per annum this year. Jack Daniel's family of brands equivalent is approaching 12 million. If you compare Jack Daniel's Black Label to Johnnie Walker Red Label (their largest single label), then Jack Daniel's can claim to sell more bottles.<br /><br />I'm still giving Diageo the benefit of the doubt. As I don't believe George Dickel distillery is advocating the second use of barrels for their whiskey. I would not be surprised if Diageo HQ London has been calling Diageo NY to find out which executives inadvererntly lit this fuse.Chris Middletonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-24412875707461944532014-03-20T11:38:14.308-05:002014-03-20T11:38:14.308-05:00Prichard was given an exemption because he was mak...Prichard was given an exemption because he was making a non-conforming product before the law was passed, hence he was grandfathered.<br /><br />In India, they drink a 'whiskey' that is made from sugar cane and flavored to vaguely taste like scotch. In China, they drink a 'whiskey' that is made from sorghum. <br /><br />As for sales figures, there are several different lists. In most, Jack is within striking distance of Johnnie and growing faster.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-48368543451411576092014-03-20T11:30:34.205-05:002014-03-20T11:30:34.205-05:00Jack daniels does not spill more in an hour than a...Jack daniels does not spill more in an hour than all of the other distilleries produce. This sounds like a statement only the blind faithful JD followers would say. I mean you don't REALLY think that do you? I know for a fact they do not spill that much. I've been there, done that, seen it. (NO not as a tourist as I'm sure this person claiming this has) I bet he even thinks he seen their actual bottling line and production areas. Bless his heart. It's not even close to an accurate statement. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-73663820132151923352014-03-20T10:28:03.091-05:002014-03-20T10:28:03.091-05:00I don't think Prichards was grandfathered in. ...I don't think Prichards was grandfathered in. they were granted an exemption. will this remain if the law sticks next week. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-28677998412968549892014-03-20T10:20:45.581-05:002014-03-20T10:20:45.581-05:00Just to query one thing; Jack Daniels surpassing J...Just to query one thing; Jack Daniels surpassing JW. The figures I've read show JW at about 8 million 9l cases ahead of Jack with a better level of growth: http://www.drinksint.com/files/CombinednewPDF.pdf <br /><br />Maybe I'm missing something (I often do) but I thought I would double check.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15195228717714637501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-90325526024721812332014-03-19T22:07:09.651-05:002014-03-19T22:07:09.651-05:00chuck, this may be hard to know, but who are the m...chuck, this may be hard to know, but who are the major players (if any) in the spirits business in India and and China, and what are the current taste preferences in each country? I keep thinking India has Scotch or some variant of it as its preference in whiskey, and who knows what China's current whiskey preference is. But I appreciate your learned observation that this could be about how bourbon/TN/Scotch producers go after the virgin third world. P&G and other multinationals have divisions devoted to "upstream", projects and markets 5-10 yrs down the road. so too must big spirits companies.<br />crap, once india and china are cracked, can domestic producers make enough juice to serve western and eastern hemispheres??Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137567745674385407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-91911296314699932372014-03-19T20:08:28.241-05:002014-03-19T20:08:28.241-05:00I'm with you Brian B. Why are we shooting our...I'm with you Brian B. Why are we shooting ourselves in the foot here? Let the rest of the world drink Scotch and let the new era of american glut whiskey begin! Overproduced and underpriced.Lazernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-84742354540036146912014-03-19T17:11:53.692-05:002014-03-19T17:11:53.692-05:00Chuck ...
Always a fan of hearing your point of v...Chuck ...<br /><br />Always a fan of hearing your point of view and am an enormous proponent of agreeing to disagree. <br /><br />One of your last thoughts in the piece totally switched my side of this fight. Protecting Tennessee Whiskey so that India and China can discover, appreciate and, like Burgundy and Bordeaux, buy every last drop making bourbon literally impossible to find at reasonable prices much like fine French wine is now exactly why I'm in favor of Diageo. <br /><br />Let Johnnie Walker be the gold standard for the rest of the world. Water down the term "Tennessee Whiskey." Those who take the time to seek out great whiskey will be rewarded. Like ... Corsair. Those barrels aren't aging any faster. Like a secret surf spot ... those in the know reap the benefits. <br />Brian B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-76293454429026517032014-03-19T16:12:51.050-05:002014-03-19T16:12:51.050-05:00This is Darek Bell, with the Corsair Distillery. W...This is Darek Bell, with the Corsair Distillery. We are FOR keeping the more strict definition of Tennessee Whiskey and are against the repeal or watering down of the current bill. Someone has been telling our legislators in TN that this bill is for small microdistillers and craft distillers. It is not. 5 small distillers came out supporting Brown Forman over Diageo. Only 2 were against it and supported Diageo. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09700283580652447588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-85698086367471391212014-03-19T15:59:27.187-05:002014-03-19T15:59:27.187-05:00I went out today and bought a bottle of Jack Danie...I went out today and bought a bottle of Jack Daniels. I like a pour of Jack on a nice sunny day. And I'll say it again.....I wish Diageo would sell George Dickel and move out of the US all together. <br /><br />You're right Chuck. This isn't about barrels. Diageo is spinning this to further some other end they have brewing.Justin Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-19252281214137872632014-03-19T15:33:57.888-05:002014-03-19T15:33:57.888-05:00It takes a special kind of person to fight for the...It takes a special kind of person to fight for the right to be lied to.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-52721801202328632742014-03-19T15:29:01.917-05:002014-03-19T15:29:01.917-05:00So the new people should come up with their "...So the new people should come up with their "own terms". I was kind of thinking from your not so educated comments that you thought that Jack somehow has a trademark on the word Tennessee. That is absolutely ludicrous. Maybe, they should come up with a new name if they can't handle other people who make whiskey in the state of Tennessee calling their whiskey Tennessee Whiskey. Good grief!! All I hear from Jack is "cry, cry, cry crybabies" Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-88702914679795053022014-03-19T14:35:08.895-05:002014-03-19T14:35:08.895-05:00I keep trying to tell you. This isn't about ba...I keep trying to tell you. This isn't about barrels.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-14256734405007760792014-03-19T14:29:06.998-05:002014-03-19T14:29:06.998-05:00Maybe Diageo wants or hopes others like the micros...Maybe Diageo wants or hopes others like the micros will use the used barrels instead of new ones, so that there will be less competition for the new barrels that they want and need. Unlike JD, they don't have their own cooperage..scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06223114724563467033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-7652116636421540822014-03-19T13:31:07.004-05:002014-03-19T13:31:07.004-05:00Don't forget. Jack Daniel's is approaching...Don't forget. Jack Daniel's is approaching 12 million cases. Jack Daniel's spills in an hour more whiskey than all of the micros in America make in a year. That matters because we're talking about protecting consumer expectations of what 'Tennessee whiskey' means. The new kids should come up with their own terms, not steal Jack's.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-82734479389741696492014-03-19T13:27:45.042-05:002014-03-19T13:27:45.042-05:00Considering that last year's law has zero effe...Considering that last year's law has zero effect on Phil Prichard (he was grandfathered in), he should shut his big yap.Chuck Cowderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12191121480961526039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-90552366218703314612014-03-19T13:13:08.393-05:002014-03-19T13:13:08.393-05:00You mean Collier & McKeel? As far as I can tel...You mean Collier & McKeel? As far as I can tell they're the only other distiller that uses the Lincoln County Process. <br /><br />Or do you mean Prichard's? Phil Prichard was speaking out against the law and the Lincoln County Process (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20140314/BUSINESS01/303140065/Tennessee-whiskey-barrels-provoke-fight-between-liquor-giants). <br /><br />What Prichard ignores is that there is plenty of room to differentiate a whiskey from Jack Daniel's, mashbill and barrels among them. And I didn't think his pot still excludes his whiskey from the rules. <br /><br />Also, what small bourbon distillers complain that the rules for bourbon are too restrictive? If you want to be called bourbon, you make what we all -- and the feds -- agree bourbon is. <br /><br />Do the guys at Corsair try to change the bourbon rules to make their Triple Smoke malt whiskey fit? Does Chip Tate at Balcones lobby to get his corn whiskeys classified as bourbons? No. They make great whiskeys without fear that they defy traditional categories. <br /><br />There's nothing wrong with rules like these. A Tennessee whiskey designation that describes what Jack Daniel's and George Dickel have been doing voluntarily for a long time (and what Collier & McKeel do now) preserves and codifies a specific style of whiskey. It's a regional difference that I would think Tennessee distiller big and small would be excited and proud to honor. <br /><br />I think part of the problem is that it's called "Tennessee" whiskey, and not something like, say, Lincoln County whiskey. This makes it tough for a local whiskey distiller with pride in Tennessee to call it out if they don't adhere to the rules. But I say get over it. The word "Tennessee" isn't banned from your bottle. Get creative. It's ironic that a small distiller would want to stand out by fitting in. <br /><br />--HarryHarryhttp://cocktailsandcologne.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-72536655764406638022014-03-19T10:59:43.452-05:002014-03-19T10:59:43.452-05:00Jack Daniels and George Dickel are not the only Te...Jack Daniels and George Dickel are not the only Tennessee whiskey makers. I think you're forgetting one. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-1718148828177408692014-03-19T10:35:22.976-05:002014-03-19T10:35:22.976-05:00Interesting. However, I think there is something o...Interesting. However, I think there is something overlooked here: Diageo actually hurts itself well beyond the Dickel brand by supporting barrel reuse. <br /><br />Scotch, so called 'old barrel boys' in your terms, relies on a steady stream of used barrels to keep pace with demand and grow. Since this is Diageo's bread and butter, and if they really want to grow dramatically in China and elsewhere, they have much more incentive to increase the supply of these used barrels via supporting the TN whiskey law as it stands (which, as you correctly noted, was only established last year...so I'm hesitant to think a comparison to bourbon, which has had the "new barrel" regulation for quite a long time, is completely apples to apples).<br /><br />This same logic would apply to bourbon and rye as well—the more used barrels the better, especially if they can get some of those barrels from their own production of these spirits. I’d wager even if the law changed to allow used barrel use in TN whiskey Diageo would never take advantage of it since, as you understand, those used barrels have much more value to Diageo in scotch production. So really, anything that “hurts" the ‘new barrel boys’ actually hurts Diageo much more.<br /><br />I think the statement "Diageo's purpose is to undermine consumer confidence in the term 'Tennessee whiskey' by gutting the established standards, after which the marketplace will be swamped with liquid garbage that can legally call itself 'Tennessee whiskey’” is a bit overblown. This fight is not about reducing the quality of other brands' products, its about barrels. If it was about undermining quality and if changing the law back to not mandating new barrels really was going to result in a flood of “liquid garbage,” why wasn’t there any concern over TN whiskey quality before the law changed last year to require new barrels? Where are all the “garbage” brands that got wiped out after the law changed? What was Diageo doing back then to undermine TN whiskey quality?<br /><br /><br />I also think you make an assumption that discounts Chinese (or any other developing country) taste and preferences. While it is reasonable to assume brand affinity is stronger than affinity to a specific spirit type in general, it seems a bit much to think someone can’t tell the difference (or doesn’t care about the difference) between two very different types of spirits. Maybe Jack Daniel’s has a brand name advantage in some developing markets, but that hardly means scotch will be unsuccessful and fade into oblivion in those markets.<br /><br /><br />Finally, I’m not sure where you ascertained your new barrel cost figures, but I can assure you there are no new barrels on the market for anywhere close to $175 right now. The days of sub $200 barrels have come and gone, likely never to be seen again. But, if you know of any place, domestic or abroad, that is selling barrels for that low, please share! If you can find a cooperage that even has barrels to sell and deliver in the next 12 months, I’d expect a cost closer to $350. Not the end of the world, as most of that increased cost will be passed along to scotch producers and others when they buy the used barrels, but it is another point to consider/in factor of Diageo’s best interest being to continue to mandate using only new barrels. Everyone needs more barrels in the marketplace ASAP, not fewer.<br /><br /><br />This is just my opinion and, as always, I enjoy reading yours as well! So thanks for another interesting article.Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-840930092789285091.post-18562216089662687502014-03-19T09:43:21.120-05:002014-03-19T09:43:21.120-05:00Which "small producers" have complained ...Which "small producers" have complained that the rules surrounding "bourbon" are too restricting? I'm a small producer, and disagree. I think the rules make it more difficult to make a differentiated product called "bourbon", but at the exact same time, that's the exact point of having the rules. I can make whatever product I want, and there are no rules to stop me (within reason) - but I just can't call it BOURBON unless I follow those rules. It is not particularly restricting. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com